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  • #274
    Greg Vogel
    Participant

    I still have some confusion after today’s call …. At one point in the call, Jon mentioned that licenses are required for driving as per the common law of the land…. and if a man acting as a police officer pulls me over for speeding, he has authority per the license contract to issue me a ticket (if I am speeding). However, if he beats me up or does anything outside of issuing a ticket, i can hold him liable for causing me harm.

    So, in the same context, if it’s a State law requirement for a store to enforce wearing a mask, why wouldn’t we have to follow that? Jon said we could respond to the enforcer’s ‘order’ and I can notice them that to follow orders I charge, say $5000. How is that different than a speeding ticket? Can I use the same strategy of noticing for the speeding ticket? They are both statutes or codes so what’s the difference? Seems inconsistent to me.

    as FYI, here is my State’s website about masks – it says we would be violating law by not complying:
    https://covid19.colorado.gov/mask-guidance

    Can anyone help shed some light on my confusion?

    #277
    Cara tissandier
    Participant

    From what I gathered, you can challenge a statute/rule/legal requirement so long as you have evidence that the rule in question causes harm. Masks do cause harm so you are in your rights to politely refuse whoever is asking you to wear one. In the U.K, you have exemption if you have a medical reason. They cannot ask what that reason is so this seems to be the easiest way to get around the issue. I think Jon said this is true for commercial law too. As in, there should be no commercial law that causes harm and if it does then you do not need to comply as the law is invalid. In terms of being refused into shops, mankind have a right to access essential items such as food, clothing etc so my understanding is we cannot be denied access to these things as it will cause us harm. I guess some shops will want your business, so far in the UK everyone I know who hasn’t worn a mask has gone into food shops without any issues.

    I think the drivers license is interesting. I think Jon said that the license is difficult to ignore as it has been around for a long time. If you get pulled over, the officer can only issue a ticket to the fictional person ‘licensee’ but you can choose whether you attach your true self to that fictional person. You do not need to give your name and details as there has been no crime committed, just an offence. So you can choose whether you enter into contract with the officer or not. If you do not give your details and you simply say you do not answer questions then the officer can run your plate and issue the ticket to the vehicle’s registered keeper. Again, I believe you can choose whether you attach yourself to that fictional person or not. We always have that choice unless we accept the title/legal fiction as ours or get tricked into accepting it with their legalise speak.

    Cara

    #279
    Greg Vogel
    Participant

    Thanks for sharing Cara. With the masks, it makes sense as to whether or not that ‘order’ is causing me harm. It’s such a tricky scenario because other men and women of a different level of awareness truly believe that me not wearing a mask causes them harm…

    As for the driver’s license and speeding, I agree and thought the distinction between public/private or fiction/reality was our choice to make (which mask we put on). Perhaps Jon or Greg can clarify as it seems inconsistent to have that choice of which mask to wear on one hand, yet accept the speeding ticket on the other hand because it’s the law of the land… even though a speeding ticket can cause me financial harm.

    #281
    russell rayne
    Participant

    i was wondering if you and the others would be interested in having zoom meetings a day or two after Greg and Jon share; we could do this weekly and discuss and share with our selfs.

    #282
    Cara tissandier
    Participant

    Hi Russell, I would be up for that. Not zoom though… I use a friend’s laptop for the sessions as I don’t want zoom on my laptop. Webex is free with no download required. If Greg or Jon could sign up with a central email i.d then we could have a course virtual room that allows anyone one of us to meet another at anytime. It will essentially always be ‘open’. As well as using it for follow up sessions; let’s say two of us are chatting on the telegram group about something in real time, we could both agree to go to the virtual room and talk about it face to face instead and anyone else who is interested could join. There is also the ability to record so that others who cannot attend could watch it. I am not affiliated to webex but I believe it to be more secure than zoom.

    I think this week’s exercise is tough and having the ability to chat through it and support each other would be useful.

    Greg – this is where right and wrong comes into play and why it is such a tricky thing because ultimately it always depends on the exact situation you are in and who is answering! Would it be right for me to use common law to get out of paying for a speeding ticket if I was knowingly doing 80 in a 30 on a road with pedestrian traffic? Would it be right for me to use my knowledge of the law to get out of a ticket which came from me doing 55 on a dual carriageway (highway) that has a limit of 50 with good visibility and no other traffic (i.e no increased risk of harm being caused by my 5mph deviation from the rule)? The former is not morally/spiritually aligned and it would not therefore be right for me to get out of paying despite me having the ability to do so. I would expect a jury of 12 would agree I should pay. For the latter, if i was one of 12 on a jury and this was put before me, I would vote to dismiss the fine if the man/woman seemed genuine and there was enough evidence to support the claim that there was no increased risk of harm.

    Back to the topic, if I am challenged for not wearing a mask, i will use my knowledge of the law – along with my knowledge of viruses and the effectiveness of masks as necessary – to politely counter any challenge that I should wear one. At a soul level, despite it being uncomfortable to enter into confrontation, it is the right thing for me to do in this instance and the only way to avoid a negative karmic reaction.

    #283
    Greg Vogel
    Participant

    Hi Cara,
    I like your last paragraphs about using the litmus test of a jury of 12 for whatever scenario is in question. That strategy, combined with my inner knowing, should bring me pretty close to alignment I would think. 🙂 Thank you.

    Russell – I’d be interested in discussing further.

    #288
    russell rayne
    Participant

    hi Greg, my schedule is very flexible; please let me know what is good for you. russell

    #289
    sarah willoughby
    Participant

    i’m trying to stick with the simple concepts for now so that once i get that ’embedded’ i can deal with their magic word games.

    so what i see when i click on the state’s link that greg gave is guidance for people. i am not people, i am a woman sometimes going by the name of ….sarah…..
    as soon as i agree i am people then i have been sucked under their bus….and their rules apply
    if i resist (and yes its tough with all the fear going on) i am a woman……and i set my law…..

    not at all tekkie so am not even on telegram yet…..happy to try and jump out of zoom altho for me it works, i know they are spying on us online…. i dont have the insider knowledge and skills to deal with that currently…..

    #293
    russell rayne
    Participant

    hi cara; are you aware of Jitsi meet.

    #294
    Cara tissandier
    Participant

    Yes Russell I have heard of it but never used it. I chose to use webex because of the personal room functionality and the ability to record sessions. I do t think Jitsi has these but for us to just meet weekly I’d be happy to use Jitsi as there is no download or sign up needed.

    #295
    Greg Vogel
    Participant

    Russell – what time zone are you in? I’m in Mountain Standard Time (US)

    #296
    russell rayne
    Participant

    i, am near pacific standard time

    #304
    Greg Vogel
    Participant

    Want to chat on Thursdays? I’m good with whatever platform you want to use…

    #305
    russell rayne
    Participant

    thursdays sound good, i have meetings from 6-10 in the mornings; anytime after is good; here is a
    the link: https://meet.jit.si/labclassformankind; peace.

    #307
    russell rayne
    Participant

    as soon as we agree on a time, i shall share the link on telegram, so others may join, if they wish; peace.

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